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Prices by grade
Today's figures for every tier. Graded history starts building tonight.
Raw · ungraded£1.03
Grade 9£26.73
Grade 9.5£29.54
PSA 10£62.78
BGS 10£81.98
CGC 10£18.78
At a glance
30-day high£1.26
30-day low£0.82
Tracked high£1.48
Days tracked138
IllustratorMitsuhiro Arita
Pokédex19
Price history
117 readings · 138d
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
10 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1711 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1712 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1713 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1714 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1715 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1716 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1717 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1623 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1324 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1425 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1426 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0327 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0328 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0329 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0330 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.03
£1.05£1.10£1.15
23 Aug24 Aug26 Aug30 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
18 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1719 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1720 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1721 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1722 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1723 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1724 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1725 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1726 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1727 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1728 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1729 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1730 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.1731 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.201 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.202 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.203 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.044 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.045 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.046 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.887 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.888 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.889 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.2610 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.2611 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0312 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0313 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0314 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9915 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9916 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9917 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.9918 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.8219 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.8220 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.8221 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1322 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1323 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1324 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1425 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1426 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0327 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0328 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0329 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0330 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.03
£1.00£1.20
31 Jul4 Aug14 Aug30 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
14 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.9815 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.9816 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.9817 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.9818 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.7419 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.7420 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.7421 Apr 2026PriceCharting£0.7422 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.2023 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.2024 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.2025 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.1726 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.1727 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.0528 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.0529 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.0530 Apr 2026PriceCharting£1.051 May 2026PriceCharting£0.732 May 2026PriceCharting£0.733 May 2026PriceCharting£0.734 May 2026PriceCharting£1.125 May 2026PriceCharting£1.126 May 2026PriceCharting£1.217 May 2026PriceCharting£1.218 May 2026PriceCharting£1.219 May 2026PriceCharting£1.2110 May 2026PriceCharting£1.1211 May 2026PriceCharting£1.1212 May 2026PriceCharting£1.1213 May 2026PriceCharting£0.7414 May 2026PriceCharting£0.7415 May 2026PriceCharting£0.7416 May 2026PriceCharting£0.8117 May 2026PriceCharting£0.8118 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9019 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9020 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9021 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9022 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9523 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9524 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9525 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9226 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9227 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9728 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9729 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9730 May 2026PriceCharting£0.9731 May 2026PriceCharting£1.051 Jun 2026PriceCharting£1.052 Jun 2026PriceCharting£1.053 Jun 2026PriceCharting£1.064 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.065 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.176 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.177 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.178 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.179 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0610 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0611 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0612 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0313 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0314 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0315 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.4716 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.4717 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.4818 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.4819 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.4820 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1021 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1022 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1023 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1024 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.3725 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.3726 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0527 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0528 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0529 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.9930 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.991 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.992 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.993 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.204 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.205 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.206 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.927 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.928 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.149 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1410 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1411 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9712 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9713 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9714 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9715 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0416 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0417 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0418 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0419 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0420 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0421 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1722 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1723 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1724 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1725 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1726 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1727 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1028 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1029 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.1030 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.2031 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.201 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.202 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.203 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.044 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.045 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.046 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.887 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.888 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.889 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.2610 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.2611 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0312 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0313 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£1.0314 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9915 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9916 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.17PriceCharting£0.9917 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.9918 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.8219 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.8220 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£0.8221 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1322 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1323 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1324 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1425 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.1426 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0327 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0328 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0329 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.0330 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1.16PriceCharting£1.03
£0.75£1.00£1.25
14 Apr26 May5 Jul30 Aug
HoloHawk Est. Market · PriceCharting · PulseTCG. Hover any point for that day's figures. Flat sections mean the price did not move — a reading is recorded only when it changes. PulseTCG has no readings for this card yet.
Graded price history
PSA 10 · £62.78
PSA 10Grade 9.5Grade 9BGS 10CGC 10
14 Apr 2026PSA 10£80.6515 Apr 2026PSA 10£80.6516 Apr 2026PSA 10£80.6517 Apr 2026PSA 10£80.6518 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9419 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9420 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9421 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9422 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9423 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9424 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9425 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9426 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9427 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9428 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9429 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.9430 Apr 2026PSA 10£72.941 May 2026PSA 10£72.942 May 2026PSA 10£72.943 May 2026PSA 10£72.944 May 2026PSA 10£72.945 May 2026PSA 10£72.946 May 2026PSA 10£62.787 May 2026PSA 10£62.788 May 2026PSA 10£62.789 May 2026PSA 10£62.7810 May 2026PSA 10£61.1911 May 2026PSA 10£61.1912 May 2026PSA 10£61.1913 May 2026PSA 10£61.1914 May 2026PSA 10£61.1915 May 2026PSA 10£61.1916 May 2026PSA 10£61.1917 May 2026PSA 10£61.1918 May 2026PSA 10£61.1919 May 2026PSA 10£61.1920 May 2026PSA 10£61.1921 May 2026PSA 10£61.1922 May 2026PSA 10£61.1923 May 2026PSA 10£61.1924 May 2026PSA 10£61.1925 May 2026PSA 10£61.1926 May 2026PSA 10£61.1927 May 2026PSA 10£61.1928 May 2026PSA 10£61.1929 May 2026PSA 10£61.1930 May 2026PSA 10£61.1931 May 2026PSA 10£61.191 Jun 2026PSA 10£61.192 Jun 2026PSA 10£61.193 Jun 2026PSA 10£61.194 Jun 2026PSA 10£61.195 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.786 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.787 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.788 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.789 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7810 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7811 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7812 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7813 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7814 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7815 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7816 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7817 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7818 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7819 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7820 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7821 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7822 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7823 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7824 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7825 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7826 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7827 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7828 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7829 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.7830 Jun 2026PSA 10£62.781 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.782 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.783 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.784 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.785 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.786 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.787 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.788 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.789 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7810 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7811 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7812 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7813 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7814 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7815 Jul 2026PSA 10£65.8916 Jul 2026PSA 10£65.8917 Jul 2026PSA 10£65.8918 Jul 2026PSA 10£65.8919 Jul 2026PSA 10£65.8920 Jul 2026PSA 10£65.8921 Jul 2026PSA 10£68.1922 Jul 2026PSA 10£68.1923 Jul 2026PSA 10£68.1924 Jul 2026PSA 10£68.1925 Jul 2026PSA 10£68.1926 Jul 2026PSA 10£68.1927 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7828 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7829 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7830 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.7831 Jul 2026PSA 10£62.781 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.782 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.783 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.784 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£31.02Grade 9£28.45BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.875 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£31.02Grade 9£28.45BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.876 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£31.02Grade 9£28.31BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.897 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£31.02Grade 9£28.31BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.898 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£31.02Grade 9£28.31BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.899 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£28.81Grade 9£26.07BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.9110 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£28.81Grade 9£26.07BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.9111 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£26.59Grade 9£24.11BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.9112 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£26.59Grade 9£24.11BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.9113 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£26.59Grade 9£24.11BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.9114 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8915 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8916 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8917 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8918 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8119 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8120 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£25.11Grade 9£23.08BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8121 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£28.81Grade 9£26.40BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8122 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£28.81Grade 9£26.40BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8123 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£28.81Grade 9£26.40BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8124 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8125 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8126 Aug 2026PSA 10£63.31Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8027 Aug 2026PSA 10£63.31Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8028 Aug 2026PSA 10£63.31Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8029 Aug 2026PSA 10£63.31Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.8030 Aug 2026PSA 10£62.78Grade 9.5£29.54Grade 9£26.73BGS 10£81.98CGC 10£18.78
£25.00£50.00£75.00
14 Apr26 May5 Jul30 Aug
Graded prices from PriceCharting, in GBP. PSA 10 has been tracked since April 2026; the other tiers began recording 3 August 2026 and join the chart as their history builds.
New listings per day
1 today
How many new UK listings appear for this card each day. Rising supply against a
falling price is the clearest sell signal there is. This counts what we saw, so it is a sample of
the market rather than a total.
18 Aug 2026New listings/day119 Aug 2026New listings/day120 Aug 2026New listings/day021 Aug 2026New listings/day022 Aug 2026New listings/day023 Aug 2026New listings/day024 Aug 2026New listings/day025 Aug 2026New listings/day026 Aug 2026New listings/day027 Aug 2026New listings/day028 Aug 2026New listings/day029 Aug 2026New listings/day030 Aug 2026New listings/day1
01
18 Aug22 Aug26 Aug30 Aug
New UK listings we saw appear each day. A direct count of what the scanner observed, not an estimate of everything on eBay. Source: HoloHawk, observed directly on eBay UK.
Confirmed sales per day
From tomorrow
How often this card actually sells We record roughly 4,600 UK auction outcomes a day across the catalogue. From tomorrow this charts how many close with a winning bid, day by day.
Only auctions that finished with a bid count. A listing vanishing is not proof of a sale, so it is not counted as one.
Recent confirmed sales
Recording live
No confirmed sales for this card yet
We log every UK auction that closes with a winning bid — around 4,600 a day across the catalogue.
The first result for this card appears here as soon as one sells.
On sale now in the UK
2 live
Fixed-price listings we are currently tracking, cheapest first. Asking prices, not sales,
and a sample of what is listed rather than everything on eBay. Each row opens the listing on eBay — HoloHawk earns a commission on purchases made through it, and it never changes the price you pay.
Three independent readings, shown side by side rather than blended into one figure:
HoloHawk Est. MarketOur own estimate, from live UK listings
PriceChartingPublished reference price, USD converted to GBP
PulseTCGPublished reference price, natively GBP
A reading is stored only when a price actually changes, so flat
stretches mean the price held — not that data is missing. Where a source has no history for an item its
line is absent rather than flat. Confirmed sales are UK auctions that closed with a winning bid, observed
within three minutes of close, so each is a lower bound. Live listings are asking prices, not sales.
Supply and sales counts are direct observations — listings we saw appear and auctions we saw close with a
bid. We do not infer that a listing sold because it disappeared, so nothing here depends on that guess.