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Prices by grade
PSA 10 = 13.6× raw
Today's figures for every tier. Graded history starts building tonight.
Raw · ungraded£200
Grade 9£445
Grade 9.5£489
PSA 10£2,720
BGS 10£3,536
CGC 10£1,632
A PSA 10 sells for 13.6× the raw card — a gap of £2,520. Grading fees and the risk of a 9 come out of that.
At a glance
30-day high£248
30-day low£194
Tracked high£248
Days tracked140
IllustratorNaoki Saito
Pokédex151
Price history
113 readings · 140d
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
24 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£16625 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£171PriceCharting£20526 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£171PriceCharting£20027 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20028 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20029 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20030 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20031 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£2001 Sept 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£200
£180£200
24 Aug24 Aug27 Aug31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
1 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£1652 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1943 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1944 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1945 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1946 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1947 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1948 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1949 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£19410 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£19411 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£19412 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£19413 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£164PriceCharting£19414 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£164PriceCharting£19415 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£164PriceCharting£19416 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24817 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24818 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24819 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24820 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£24821 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20522 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20523 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20524 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20525 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£171PriceCharting£20526 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£171PriceCharting£20027 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20028 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20029 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20030 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20031 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£2001 Sept 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£200
£200
1 Aug10 Aug17 Aug31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
14 Apr 2026PriceCharting£81.5515 Apr 2026PriceCharting£81.5516 Apr 2026PriceCharting£81.5517 Apr 2026PriceCharting£84.2118 Apr 2026PriceCharting£84.2119 Apr 2026PriceCharting£84.2120 Apr 2026PriceCharting£84.2121 Apr 2026PriceCharting£84.2122 Apr 2026PriceCharting£84.2123 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3224 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3225 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3226 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3227 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3228 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3229 Apr 2026PriceCharting£89.3230 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£66.22PriceCharting£89.321 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£66.22PriceCharting£89.322 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£66.22PriceCharting£89.323 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£66.22PriceCharting£89.324 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£66.22PriceCharting£89.325 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£64.04PriceCharting£89.326 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£64.50PriceCharting£89.327 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£64.50PriceCharting£89.328 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£64.50PriceCharting£89.329 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£64.97PriceCharting£89.3210 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£74.67PriceCharting£89.3211 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£74.67PriceCharting£89.3212 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£74.67PriceCharting£91.1513 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1514 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1515 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1516 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1517 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1518 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1519 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1520 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1521 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1522 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1523 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1524 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1525 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1526 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1527 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1528 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1529 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£91.1530 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.8331 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.831 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£1172 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£1173 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£1174 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£1175 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£1176 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£1177 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.608 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.609 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.6010 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.1411 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.1412 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.1413 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.1414 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.1415 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.1416 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3517 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3518 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3519 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3520 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3521 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3522 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3523 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£97.3524 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.0025 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.0026 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.0027 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.0028 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£77.49PriceCharting£98.0029 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.84PriceCharting£98.0030 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.84PriceCharting£98.001 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.84PriceCharting£98.002 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.94PriceCharting£98.003 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.94PriceCharting£98.004 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.94PriceCharting£1015 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£127PriceCharting£1016 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£127PriceCharting£1017 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£127PriceCharting£1018 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£140PriceCharting£1019 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£140PriceCharting£10110 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£140PriceCharting£10111 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£140PriceCharting£10112 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£140PriceCharting£10113 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£10114 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£17615 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£167PriceCharting£17616 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£167PriceCharting£17617 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£167PriceCharting£17618 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£167PriceCharting£17619 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£298PriceCharting£19820 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£298PriceCharting£19821 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£298PriceCharting£19822 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£256PriceCharting£19823 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£256PriceCharting£19824 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£256PriceCharting£19825 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£256PriceCharting£19926 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£256PriceCharting£19927 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£258PriceCharting£19928 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£258PriceCharting£19929 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£258PriceCharting£19930 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£19431 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1941 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1942 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1943 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1944 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1945 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1946 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£152PriceCharting£1947 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1948 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£1949 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£165PriceCharting£19410 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£19411 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£19412 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£163PriceCharting£19413 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£164PriceCharting£19414 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£164PriceCharting£19415 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£164PriceCharting£19416 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24817 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24818 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24819 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£162PriceCharting£24820 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£24821 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20522 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20523 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20524 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£20525 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£171PriceCharting£20526 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£171PriceCharting£20027 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20028 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20029 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20030 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£177PriceCharting£20031 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£2001 Sept 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£200
£100£200
14 Apr23 May3 Jul1 Sept
HoloHawk Est. Market · PriceCharting · PulseTCG. Hover any point for that day's figures. Flat sections mean the price did not move — a reading is recorded only when it changes. PulseTCG has no readings for this card yet.
Graded price history
PSA 10 · £2,720
PSA 10Grade 9.5Grade 9BGS 10CGC 10
14 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,06915 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,06916 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,06917 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,07318 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,07319 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,07320 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,07321 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,07322 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,07323 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10624 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10625 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10626 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10627 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10628 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10629 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,10630 Apr 2026PSA 10£1,1061 May 2026PSA 10£1,1062 May 2026PSA 10£1,1763 May 2026PSA 10£1,1764 May 2026PSA 10£1,1765 May 2026PSA 10£1,1766 May 2026PSA 10£1,1767 May 2026PSA 10£1,1768 May 2026PSA 10£1,1769 May 2026PSA 10£1,17610 May 2026PSA 10£1,17611 May 2026PSA 10£1,17612 May 2026PSA 10£1,18013 May 2026PSA 10£1,18014 May 2026PSA 10£1,18015 May 2026PSA 10£1,18016 May 2026PSA 10£1,18017 May 2026PSA 10£1,18018 May 2026PSA 10£1,18019 May 2026PSA 10£1,20720 May 2026PSA 10£1,20721 May 2026PSA 10£1,20722 May 2026PSA 10£1,20723 May 2026PSA 10£1,20724 May 2026PSA 10£1,20725 May 2026PSA 10£1,20726 May 2026PSA 10£1,20727 May 2026PSA 10£1,20728 May 2026PSA 10£1,20729 May 2026PSA 10£1,20730 May 2026PSA 10£1,21131 May 2026PSA 10£1,2111 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,2992 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,2993 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,2994 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,2995 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,2996 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,2997 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,5518 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,5519 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,55110 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30011 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30012 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30013 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30014 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30015 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30016 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31017 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31018 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31019 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31020 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31021 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31022 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31023 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,31024 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30325 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30326 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30327 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30328 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30329 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,30330 Jun 2026PSA 10£1,3031 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3032 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3033 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3034 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3165 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3166 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3167 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3168 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,3169 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,31610 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,31611 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,31612 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,31613 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,31614 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,36315 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,36316 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,36317 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,36318 Jul 2026PSA 10£1,36319 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,35420 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,35421 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,35422 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,35423 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,35424 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,35425 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,65626 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,65627 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,65628 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,65629 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,65630 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,67131 Jul 2026PSA 10£2,6711 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,6712 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,6713 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,6094 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,609Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,391CGC 10£1,5655 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,609Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,391CGC 10£1,5656 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,609Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,391CGC 10£1,5657 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,609Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,391CGC 10£1,5658 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,609Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,391CGC 10£1,5659 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56810 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56811 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56812 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56813 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56814 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56815 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,614Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,398CGC 10£1,56816 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,620Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,406CGC 10£1,57217 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,620Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,406CGC 10£1,57218 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,620Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,406CGC 10£1,57219 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,620Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,406CGC 10£1,57220 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,620Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,406CGC 10£1,57221 Aug 2026PSA 10£3,350Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£4,355CGC 10£2,01022 Aug 2026PSA 10£3,350Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£4,355CGC 10£2,01023 Aug 2026PSA 10£3,350Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£4,355CGC 10£2,01024 Aug 2026PSA 10£3,350Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£4,355CGC 10£2,01025 Aug 2026PSA 10£3,350Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£4,355CGC 10£2,01026 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,775Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,608CGC 10£1,66527 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,775Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,608CGC 10£1,66528 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,775Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,608CGC 10£1,66529 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,775Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,608CGC 10£1,66530 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,775Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,608CGC 10£1,66531 Aug 2026PSA 10£2,775Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,608CGC 10£1,6651 Sept 2026PSA 10£2,720Grade 9.5£489Grade 9£445BGS 10£3,536CGC 10£1,632
£2,000£4,000
14 Apr23 May3 Jul1 Sept
Graded prices from PriceCharting, in GBP. PSA 10 has been tracked since April 2026; the other tiers began recording 3 August 2026 and join the chart as their history builds.
New listings per day
0 today
How many new UK listings appear for this card each day. Rising supply against a
falling price is the clearest sell signal there is. This counts what we saw, so it is a sample of
the market rather than a total.
7 Aug 2026New listings/day18 Aug 2026New listings/day39 Aug 2026New listings/day110 Aug 2026New listings/day111 Aug 2026New listings/day012 Aug 2026New listings/day113 Aug 2026New listings/day314 Aug 2026New listings/day015 Aug 2026New listings/day016 Aug 2026New listings/day117 Aug 2026New listings/day118 Aug 2026New listings/day019 Aug 2026New listings/day020 Aug 2026New listings/day121 Aug 2026New listings/day022 Aug 2026New listings/day023 Aug 2026New listings/day024 Aug 2026New listings/day125 Aug 2026New listings/day126 Aug 2026New listings/day027 Aug 2026New listings/day128 Aug 2026New listings/day029 Aug 2026New listings/day030 Aug 2026New listings/day031 Aug 2026New listings/day0
0123
7 Aug15 Aug23 Aug31 Aug
New UK listings we saw appear each day. A direct count of what the scanner observed, not an estimate of everything on eBay. Source: HoloHawk, observed directly on eBay UK.
Confirmed sales per day
Auctions that closed with a winning bid. A sale we watched happen, not a listing that
disappeared for unknown reasons.
3 Aug 2026Confirmed sales/day1
1
UK auctions that closed with a winning bid each day. Source: HoloHawk, observed directly on eBay UK.
Recent confirmed sales
Confirmed auction results
UK auctions that closed with a winning bid — not listings that merely disappeared.
Observed within three minutes of close, so each is a lower bound on the hammer price.
Ended
Bids
Price
3 Aug
2
£178 or more
On sale now in the UK
10 live
Fixed-price listings we are currently tracking, cheapest first. Asking prices, not sales,
and a sample of what is listed rather than everything on eBay. Each row opens the listing on eBay — HoloHawk earns a commission on purchases made through it, and it never changes the price you pay.
Three independent readings, shown side by side rather than blended into one figure:
HoloHawk Est. MarketOur own estimate, from live UK listings
PriceChartingPublished reference price, USD converted to GBP
PulseTCGPublished reference price, natively GBP
A reading is stored only when a price actually changes, so flat
stretches mean the price held — not that data is missing. Where a source has no history for an item its
line is absent rather than flat. Confirmed sales are UK auctions that closed with a winning bid, observed
within three minutes of close, so each is a lower bound. Live listings are asking prices, not sales.
Supply and sales counts are direct observations — listings we saw appear and auctions we saw close with a
bid. We do not infer that a listing sold because it disappeared, so nothing here depends on that guess.