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Prices by grade
PSA 10 = 5.0× raw
Today's figures for every tier. Graded history starts building tonight.
Raw · ungraded£153
Grade 9£235
Grade 9.5£258
PSA 10£758
BGS 10£985
CGC 10£268
A PSA 10 sells for 5.0× the raw card — a gap of £606. Grading fees and the risk of a 9 come out of that.
At a glance
30-day high£153
30-day low£132
Tracked high£159
Days tracked139
IllustratorYou Iribi
Pokédex802
Price history
117 readings · 139d
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
12 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0413 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0414 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0415 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0416 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0417 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0418 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0419 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.0424 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14825 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14826 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14827 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14828 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14829 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14830 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14831 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£153
£100£120£140
24 Aug24 Aug27 Aug31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
20 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£11021 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£11022 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£11023 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£11024 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£11025 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£11026 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.5027 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.5028 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.5029 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.5030 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.5031 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.501 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1322 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1323 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1374 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1375 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1376 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1397 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1398 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1399 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13210 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13211 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13212 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£13213 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14014 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14015 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14516 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14517 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14518 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14819 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14820 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14821 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14822 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14823 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14824 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14825 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14826 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14827 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14828 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14829 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14830 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14831 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£153
£100£120£140
1 Aug4 Aug18 Aug31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
14 Apr 2026PriceCharting£14815 Apr 2026PriceCharting£14816 Apr 2026PriceCharting£14817 Apr 2026PriceCharting£14818 Apr 2026PriceCharting£14819 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.56PriceCharting£15920 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.56PriceCharting£15921 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.56PriceCharting£15922 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.56PriceCharting£14223 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.56PriceCharting£14224 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£71.42PriceCharting£14225 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£72.98PriceCharting£15626 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£72.98PriceCharting£15627 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£72.98PriceCharting£15628 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£72.98PriceCharting£14829 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£72.98PriceCharting£14830 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£72.98PriceCharting£1481 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£100PriceCharting£1472 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£100PriceCharting£1473 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.46PriceCharting£1474 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.46PriceCharting£1175 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£90.46PriceCharting£1176 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£1497 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£1498 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£1499 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£14910 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£15011 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£15012 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£91.96PriceCharting£15013 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£115PriceCharting£15314 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£112PriceCharting£15315 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£15316 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£15317 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£15318 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£15319 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14120 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14121 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14122 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13423 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13424 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13425 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13626 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13627 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13628 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13629 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13630 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13431 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1291 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1292 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1293 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1334 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1335 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1356 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1357 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£1358 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£129PriceCharting£1359 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£129PriceCharting£13510 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13511 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13512 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14213 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14214 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14215 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£14216 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13517 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£128PriceCharting£13518 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£117PriceCharting£15719 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£117PriceCharting£15820 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£117PriceCharting£15821 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£116PriceCharting£15822 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£116PriceCharting£14823 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£116PriceCharting£14824 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£116PriceCharting£14825 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£14826 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£13427 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£13428 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£121PriceCharting£10629 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£121PriceCharting£10630 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£121PriceCharting£1061 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£1142 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£1143 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£1144 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£119PriceCharting£1145 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£120PriceCharting£1166 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£120PriceCharting£1167 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£108PriceCharting£1478 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£108PriceCharting£1479 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£108PriceCharting£14710 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£108PriceCharting£14811 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£108PriceCharting£14812 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£14813 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£14814 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£14815 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£14816 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£15917 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£15918 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£111PriceCharting£15919 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14820 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14821 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14822 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14823 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14824 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14825 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£110PriceCharting£14726 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£14727 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£14728 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13829 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13830 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13831 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1321 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1322 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1323 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1374 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1375 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1376 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1397 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1398 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£1399 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13210 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13211 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£99.50PriceCharting£13212 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£13213 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14014 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14015 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14516 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14517 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14518 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14819 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14820 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14821 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14822 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14823 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14824 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14825 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14826 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14827 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14828 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14829 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14830 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£14831 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£98.04PriceCharting£153
£100£150
14 Apr26 May5 Jul31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. Market · PriceCharting · PulseTCG. Hover any point for that day's figures. Flat sections mean the price did not move — a reading is recorded only when it changes. PulseTCG has no readings for this card yet.
Graded price history
PSA 10 · £758
PSA 10Grade 9.5Grade 9BGS 10CGC 10
14 Apr 2026PSA 10£45315 Apr 2026PSA 10£45316 Apr 2026PSA 10£47117 Apr 2026PSA 10£47118 Apr 2026PSA 10£47119 Apr 2026PSA 10£47120 Apr 2026PSA 10£47121 Apr 2026PSA 10£47122 Apr 2026PSA 10£47123 Apr 2026PSA 10£47124 Apr 2026PSA 10£47125 Apr 2026PSA 10£49926 Apr 2026PSA 10£49927 Apr 2026PSA 10£49928 Apr 2026PSA 10£49929 Apr 2026PSA 10£49930 Apr 2026PSA 10£4991 May 2026PSA 10£4892 May 2026PSA 10£4893 May 2026PSA 10£4894 May 2026PSA 10£4915 May 2026PSA 10£4916 May 2026PSA 10£5127 May 2026PSA 10£5128 May 2026PSA 10£5129 May 2026PSA 10£51210 May 2026PSA 10£51511 May 2026PSA 10£51512 May 2026PSA 10£51513 May 2026PSA 10£52914 May 2026PSA 10£52915 May 2026PSA 10£52916 May 2026PSA 10£54217 May 2026PSA 10£54218 May 2026PSA 10£54219 May 2026PSA 10£54220 May 2026PSA 10£54221 May 2026PSA 10£54222 May 2026PSA 10£54323 May 2026PSA 10£54324 May 2026PSA 10£54325 May 2026PSA 10£56126 May 2026PSA 10£56127 May 2026PSA 10£56128 May 2026PSA 10£56129 May 2026PSA 10£56130 May 2026PSA 10£58031 May 2026PSA 10£5951 Jun 2026PSA 10£5952 Jun 2026PSA 10£5953 Jun 2026PSA 10£6064 Jun 2026PSA 10£6065 Jun 2026PSA 10£6066 Jun 2026PSA 10£6067 Jun 2026PSA 10£6068 Jun 2026PSA 10£6069 Jun 2026PSA 10£61310 Jun 2026PSA 10£61311 Jun 2026PSA 10£61312 Jun 2026PSA 10£60913 Jun 2026PSA 10£60914 Jun 2026PSA 10£60915 Jun 2026PSA 10£60916 Jun 2026PSA 10£60917 Jun 2026PSA 10£60918 Jun 2026PSA 10£68319 Jun 2026PSA 10£72020 Jun 2026PSA 10£72021 Jun 2026PSA 10£72022 Jun 2026PSA 10£72023 Jun 2026PSA 10£72024 Jun 2026PSA 10£72025 Jun 2026PSA 10£72026 Jun 2026PSA 10£72027 Jun 2026PSA 10£72028 Jun 2026PSA 10£72029 Jun 2026PSA 10£72030 Jun 2026PSA 10£7201 Jul 2026PSA 10£7642 Jul 2026PSA 10£7643 Jul 2026PSA 10£7644 Jul 2026PSA 10£7645 Jul 2026PSA 10£8446 Jul 2026PSA 10£8447 Jul 2026PSA 10£8448 Jul 2026PSA 10£8449 Jul 2026PSA 10£84410 Jul 2026PSA 10£71611 Jul 2026PSA 10£71612 Jul 2026PSA 10£71613 Jul 2026PSA 10£71614 Jul 2026PSA 10£71815 Jul 2026PSA 10£71816 Jul 2026PSA 10£71817 Jul 2026PSA 10£71818 Jul 2026PSA 10£71819 Jul 2026PSA 10£72920 Jul 2026PSA 10£72921 Jul 2026PSA 10£72922 Jul 2026PSA 10£72923 Jul 2026PSA 10£72924 Jul 2026PSA 10£72925 Jul 2026PSA 10£72226 Jul 2026PSA 10£72227 Jul 2026PSA 10£72228 Jul 2026PSA 10£71529 Jul 2026PSA 10£71530 Jul 2026PSA 10£71531 Jul 2026PSA 10£7001 Aug 2026PSA 10£7002 Aug 2026PSA 10£7003 Aug 2026PSA 10£7914 Aug 2026PSA 10£791Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£1,028CGC 10£2705 Aug 2026PSA 10£791Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£1,028CGC 10£2706 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£232Grade 9£211BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£2707 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£232Grade 9£211BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£2708 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£232Grade 9£211BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£2709 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£226Grade 9£205BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£27010 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£226Grade 9£205BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£27011 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£226Grade 9£205BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£27012 Aug 2026PSA 10£769Grade 9.5£226Grade 9£205BGS 10£1,000CGC 10£27013 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£972CGC 10£26914 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£972CGC 10£26915 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£972CGC 10£26916 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£972CGC 10£26917 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£227Grade 9£207BGS 10£972CGC 10£26918 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£225BGS 10£972CGC 10£26919 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£225BGS 10£972CGC 10£26920 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£225BGS 10£972CGC 10£26921 Aug 2026PSA 10£748Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£225BGS 10£972CGC 10£26922 Aug 2026PSA 10£806Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£225BGS 10£1,048CGC 10£26923 Aug 2026PSA 10£806Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£225BGS 10£1,048CGC 10£26924 Aug 2026PSA 10£799Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£224BGS 10£1,039CGC 10£26925 Aug 2026PSA 10£799Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£224BGS 10£1,039CGC 10£26926 Aug 2026PSA 10£799Grade 9.5£247Grade 9£224BGS 10£1,039CGC 10£26927 Aug 2026PSA 10£758Grade 9.5£258Grade 9£235BGS 10£985CGC 10£26828 Aug 2026PSA 10£758Grade 9.5£258Grade 9£235BGS 10£985CGC 10£26829 Aug 2026PSA 10£758Grade 9.5£258Grade 9£235BGS 10£985CGC 10£26830 Aug 2026PSA 10£758Grade 9.5£258Grade 9£235BGS 10£985CGC 10£26831 Aug 2026PSA 10£758Grade 9.5£258Grade 9£235BGS 10£985CGC 10£268
£500£1,000
14 Apr26 May5 Jul31 Aug
Graded prices from PriceCharting, in GBP. PSA 10 has been tracked since April 2026; the other tiers began recording 3 August 2026 and join the chart as their history builds.
New listings per day
0 today
How many new UK listings appear for this card each day. Rising supply against a
falling price is the clearest sell signal there is. This counts what we saw, so it is a sample of
the market rather than a total.
8 Aug 2026New listings/day19 Aug 2026New listings/day010 Aug 2026New listings/day011 Aug 2026New listings/day012 Aug 2026New listings/day113 Aug 2026New listings/day014 Aug 2026New listings/day015 Aug 2026New listings/day016 Aug 2026New listings/day117 Aug 2026New listings/day018 Aug 2026New listings/day019 Aug 2026New listings/day120 Aug 2026New listings/day021 Aug 2026New listings/day022 Aug 2026New listings/day023 Aug 2026New listings/day024 Aug 2026New listings/day025 Aug 2026New listings/day026 Aug 2026New listings/day027 Aug 2026New listings/day128 Aug 2026New listings/day029 Aug 2026New listings/day030 Aug 2026New listings/day0
01
8 Aug15 Aug23 Aug30 Aug
New UK listings we saw appear each day. A direct count of what the scanner observed, not an estimate of everything on eBay. Source: HoloHawk, observed directly on eBay UK.
Confirmed sales per day
Auctions that closed with a winning bid. A sale we watched happen, not a listing that
disappeared for unknown reasons.
6 Aug 2026Confirmed sales/day1
1
UK auctions that closed with a winning bid each day. Source: HoloHawk, observed directly on eBay UK.
Recent confirmed sales
Confirmed auction results
UK auctions that closed with a winning bid — not listings that merely disappeared.
Observed within three minutes of close, so each is a lower bound on the hammer price.
Ended
Bids
Price
6 Aug
21
£102 or more
On sale now in the UK
2 live
Fixed-price listings we are currently tracking, cheapest first. Asking prices, not sales,
and a sample of what is listed rather than everything on eBay. Each row opens the listing on eBay — HoloHawk earns a commission on purchases made through it, and it never changes the price you pay.
Three independent readings, shown side by side rather than blended into one figure:
HoloHawk Est. MarketOur own estimate, from live UK listings
PriceChartingPublished reference price, USD converted to GBP
PulseTCGPublished reference price, natively GBP
A reading is stored only when a price actually changes, so flat
stretches mean the price held — not that data is missing. Where a source has no history for an item its
line is absent rather than flat. Confirmed sales are UK auctions that closed with a winning bid, observed
within three minutes of close, so each is a lower bound. Live listings are asking prices, not sales.
Supply and sales counts are direct observations — listings we saw appear and auctions we saw close with a
bid. We do not infer that a listing sold because it disappeared, so nothing here depends on that guess.