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Prices by grade
PSA 10 = 35.5× raw
Today's figures for every tier.
Raw · ungraded£15.62
Grade 9£91.04
Grade 9.5£101
PSA 10£554
BGS 10£720
CGC 10£147
A PSA 10 sells for 35.5× the raw card — a gap of £538. Grading fees and the risk of a 9 come out of that.
At a glance
30-day high£17.97
30-day low£14.80
Tracked high£31.37
Days tracked139
IllustratorKen Sugimori
Pokédex38
Price history
116 readings · 139d
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
22 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.9523 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.9524 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8025 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8026 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8027 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8028 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£16.6329 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£16.6330 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£16.6331 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£15.62
£20.00£30.00
24 Aug24 Aug28 Aug31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
30 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£23231 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£2321 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.972 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.973 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.974 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.975 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.976 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.977 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.008 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.009 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£16.9410 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£16.9411 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£16.9412 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.0013 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.0014 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£17.0015 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£17.0016 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£17.0017 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.9018 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.9019 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.9020 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8521 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8522 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8523 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8524 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8025 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8026 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8027 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8028 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£16.6329 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£16.6330 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£16.6331 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£15.62
£100£200
1 Aug4 Aug17 Aug31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. MarketPriceChartingPulseTCG awaiting data
13 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.1414 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£31.3715 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£31.3716 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£30.6017 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£30.6018 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£30.6019 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£22.0820 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£22.0821 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£22.0822 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£14.7823 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£19.14PriceCharting£14.7824 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.7825 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.7826 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.7827 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.7828 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.7829 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.7830 Apr 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.781 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.782 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.783 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.784 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.785 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.786 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.787 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.788 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.139 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.1310 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£166PriceCharting£14.1311 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9512 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9513 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9314 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9315 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9316 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9317 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9318 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.9319 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£14.0720 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£14.0721 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£14.0722 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£12.1023 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£12.1024 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£12.1025 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£15.8526 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£15.8527 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£15.8528 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£15.8529 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£15.8530 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£17.0031 May 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£17.001 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£17.002 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£17.003 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£13.694 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£17.24PriceCharting£13.695 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.696 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£13.697 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£19.548 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£19.549 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£19.5410 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£18.6911 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£18.6912 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£18.7513 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£18.7514 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£18.7515 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£18.29PriceCharting£18.7516 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£122PriceCharting£18.7517 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£122PriceCharting£18.3118 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£16.29PriceCharting£18.3119 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£16.29PriceCharting£18.3120 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£16.29PriceCharting£17.7721 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£274PriceCharting£17.7722 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£274PriceCharting£17.7723 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£274PriceCharting£17.8624 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£274PriceCharting£17.8625 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£274PriceCharting£16.2826 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.2827 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.2828 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.2829 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.2830 Jun 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.281 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.282 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£15.483 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£15.484 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£15.485 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£15.136 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£15.137 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£15.138 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.259 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.2510 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£271PriceCharting£16.2511 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.4712 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.4713 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.4714 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.0715 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.0716 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.0717 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.8118 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.8119 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.8120 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£198PriceCharting£16.8121 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£28.77PriceCharting£16.8122 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£28.77PriceCharting£16.8123 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£28.77PriceCharting£17.9424 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£28.77PriceCharting£17.9425 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£28.77PriceCharting£17.9426 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£28.77PriceCharting£17.9427 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£227PriceCharting£17.9728 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£227PriceCharting£17.9729 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.9730 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.9731 Jul 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.971 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.972 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.973 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.974 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.975 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.976 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.977 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.008 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.009 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£16.9410 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£16.9411 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£16.9412 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.0013 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£232PriceCharting£17.0014 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£17.0015 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£17.0016 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£17.0017 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.9018 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.9019 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.9020 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8521 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8522 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8523 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£15.8524 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8025 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8026 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8027 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£14.8028 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£31.95PriceCharting£16.6329 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£16.6330 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£16.6331 Aug 2026HoloHawk Est. Market£37.22PriceCharting£15.62
£100£200
14 Apr25 May5 Jul31 Aug
HoloHawk Est. Market · PriceCharting · PulseTCG. Hover any point for that day's figures. Flat sections mean the price did not move — a reading is recorded only when it changes. PulseTCG has no readings for this card yet.
Graded price history
PSA 10 · £554
PSA 10Grade 9.5Grade 9BGS 10CGC 10
14 Apr 2026PSA 10£55415 Apr 2026PSA 10£55416 Apr 2026PSA 10£55417 Apr 2026PSA 10£55418 Apr 2026PSA 10£55419 Apr 2026PSA 10£55420 Apr 2026PSA 10£55421 Apr 2026PSA 10£55422 Apr 2026PSA 10£55423 Apr 2026PSA 10£55424 Apr 2026PSA 10£55325 Apr 2026PSA 10£55326 Apr 2026PSA 10£55327 Apr 2026PSA 10£55328 Apr 2026PSA 10£55229 Apr 2026PSA 10£55230 Apr 2026PSA 10£5521 May 2026PSA 10£5512 May 2026PSA 10£5513 May 2026PSA 10£5514 May 2026PSA 10£5515 May 2026PSA 10£5516 May 2026PSA 10£5517 May 2026PSA 10£5518 May 2026PSA 10£5519 May 2026PSA 10£55110 May 2026PSA 10£55111 May 2026PSA 10£55112 May 2026PSA 10£55113 May 2026PSA 10£55114 May 2026PSA 10£55115 May 2026PSA 10£55116 May 2026PSA 10£55117 May 2026PSA 10£55118 May 2026PSA 10£55119 May 2026PSA 10£55120 May 2026PSA 10£55121 May 2026PSA 10£55122 May 2026PSA 10£55123 May 2026PSA 10£55124 May 2026PSA 10£55125 May 2026PSA 10£55126 May 2026PSA 10£55127 May 2026PSA 10£55128 May 2026PSA 10£55129 May 2026PSA 10£55130 May 2026PSA 10£55331 May 2026PSA 10£5541 Jun 2026PSA 10£5542 Jun 2026PSA 10£5543 Jun 2026PSA 10£5544 Jun 2026PSA 10£5545 Jun 2026PSA 10£5546 Jun 2026PSA 10£5547 Jun 2026PSA 10£5538 Jun 2026PSA 10£5539 Jun 2026PSA 10£55310 Jun 2026PSA 10£55411 Jun 2026PSA 10£55412 Jun 2026PSA 10£55413 Jun 2026PSA 10£55414 Jun 2026PSA 10£55415 Jun 2026PSA 10£55416 Jun 2026PSA 10£55417 Jun 2026PSA 10£55418 Jun 2026PSA 10£55419 Jun 2026PSA 10£55420 Jun 2026PSA 10£55421 Jun 2026PSA 10£55422 Jun 2026PSA 10£55423 Jun 2026PSA 10£55424 Jun 2026PSA 10£55425 Jun 2026PSA 10£55426 Jun 2026PSA 10£55427 Jun 2026PSA 10£55428 Jun 2026PSA 10£55429 Jun 2026PSA 10£55430 Jun 2026PSA 10£5541 Jul 2026PSA 10£5542 Jul 2026PSA 10£5543 Jul 2026PSA 10£5544 Jul 2026PSA 10£5545 Jul 2026PSA 10£5536 Jul 2026PSA 10£5537 Jul 2026PSA 10£5538 Jul 2026PSA 10£5539 Jul 2026PSA 10£55310 Jul 2026PSA 10£55311 Jul 2026PSA 10£55312 Jul 2026PSA 10£55313 Jul 2026PSA 10£55314 Jul 2026PSA 10£55415 Jul 2026PSA 10£55416 Jul 2026PSA 10£55417 Jul 2026PSA 10£55418 Jul 2026PSA 10£55419 Jul 2026PSA 10£55420 Jul 2026PSA 10£55421 Jul 2026PSA 10£55422 Jul 2026PSA 10£55423 Jul 2026PSA 10£55424 Jul 2026PSA 10£55425 Jul 2026PSA 10£55426 Jul 2026PSA 10£55427 Jul 2026PSA 10£55428 Jul 2026PSA 10£55429 Jul 2026PSA 10£55430 Jul 2026PSA 10£55431 Jul 2026PSA 10£5541 Aug 2026PSA 10£5542 Aug 2026PSA 10£5543 Aug 2026PSA 10£5544 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£81.29Grade 9£73.90BGS 10£721CGC 10£1475 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£81.29Grade 9£73.90BGS 10£721CGC 10£1476 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£81.29Grade 9£73.90BGS 10£721CGC 10£1477 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£110Grade 9£99.77BGS 10£721CGC 10£1478 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£110Grade 9£99.77BGS 10£721CGC 10£1479 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14710 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14711 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14712 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14713 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14714 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14715 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14716 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14717 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14718 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14719 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14720 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14721 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14722 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14723 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14724 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14725 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14726 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14727 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£721CGC 10£14728 Aug 2026PSA 10£553Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£720CGC 10£14729 Aug 2026PSA 10£553Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£720CGC 10£14730 Aug 2026PSA 10£553Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£720CGC 10£14731 Aug 2026PSA 10£554Grade 9.5£101Grade 9£91.04BGS 10£720CGC 10£147
£250£500
14 Apr25 May5 Jul31 Aug
Graded prices from PriceCharting, in GBP. PSA 10 has been tracked since April 2026; the other tiers began recording 3 August 2026 and join the chart as their history builds.
New listings per day
0 today
How many new UK listings appear for this card each day. Rising supply against a
falling price is the clearest sell signal there is. This counts what we saw, so it is a sample of
the market rather than a total.
14 Aug 2026New listings/day115 Aug 2026New listings/day016 Aug 2026New listings/day017 Aug 2026New listings/day018 Aug 2026New listings/day019 Aug 2026New listings/day020 Aug 2026New listings/day021 Aug 2026New listings/day022 Aug 2026New listings/day023 Aug 2026New listings/day024 Aug 2026New listings/day025 Aug 2026New listings/day026 Aug 2026New listings/day027 Aug 2026New listings/day028 Aug 2026New listings/day029 Aug 2026New listings/day230 Aug 2026New listings/day031 Aug 2026New listings/day0
012
14 Aug20 Aug25 Aug31 Aug
New UK listings we saw appear each day. A direct count of what the scanner observed, not an estimate of everything on eBay. Source: HoloHawk, observed directly on eBay UK.
Confirmed sales per day
Building
How often this card actually sells We record roughly 4,600 UK auction outcomes a day across the catalogue. This charts how many close with a winning bid, day by day, from the first confirmed sale for this card.
Only auctions that finished with a bid count. A listing vanishing is not proof of a sale, so it is not counted as one.
Recent confirmed sales
Recording live
No confirmed sales for this card yet
We log every UK auction that closes with a winning bid — around 4,600 a day across the catalogue.
The first result for this card appears here as soon as one sells.
On sale now in the UK
3 live
Fixed-price listings we are currently tracking, cheapest first. Asking prices, not sales,
and a sample of what is listed rather than everything on eBay. Each row opens the listing on eBay — HoloHawk earns a commission on purchases made through it, and it never changes the price you pay.
Three independent readings, shown side by side rather than blended into one figure:
HoloHawk Est. MarketOur own estimate, from live UK listings
PriceChartingPublished reference price, USD converted to GBP
PulseTCGPublished reference price, natively GBP
A reading is stored only when a price actually changes, so flat
stretches mean the price held — not that data is missing. Where a source has no history for an item its
line is absent rather than flat. Confirmed sales are UK auctions that closed with a winning bid, observed
within three minutes of close, so each is a lower bound. Live listings are asking prices, not sales.
Supply and sales counts are direct observations — listings we saw appear and auctions we saw close with a
bid. We do not infer that a listing sold because it disappeared, so nothing here depends on that guess.